Life, Love, Faith, Reviews, Whatever comes to Mind to write about.
"God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him" - John Piper, Desiring God.
I recently had a fleeting visit to the city of York. This city has a very long history over many centuries which I don’t claim to know much about. However I recently became aware of an incident that happened in 1190. The outline of which can be seen in the photo below.
This anti-Semitism partly stemmed from the utterly incomprehensible idea that all Jews were responsible for Killing Jesus. This has been a recurring theme of anti-Semitic behaviour from people who claim to be Christian through the centuries.
This got me thinking about why and how such atrocities can occur and how people claiming to be Christian get it so horribly wrong when it quite clearly goes against anything that is written in the Bible. Then it occurred to me that up until the Bible was translated into normal everyday language, whatever that may be, ‘Christians’ only knew what was taught them from the pulpit of the Church. (From a brief search this site gives an outline of the History of the Bible translations). Not until the 1500’s was an English translation of the Bible available for the common man. The Roman Church tried to suppress any version that was not in Latin and killed many in the process. It became clear that the Latin Vulgate bible that the Catholic church held to was massively corrupt and I am sure the source of much of the error that seeped into the church over the centuries. Satan won a great victory for a time here by blinding the understanding of the common man by using our innate desire for power and corrupting what started as good, the Church!
Not until everyone could read the Bible for themselves could they discern that what was being taught by the Church was far from ‘the Truth’. This kicked off the Reformation and much conflict between the Catholic and for a time Anglican church who wanted to retain tight control and those that Declared the Truth of scripture boldly challenging the established order. I am not about to discuss the Reformation here, Google it if you wish to look that up.
We are encouraged to search the scriptures daily like the Bereans (Acts 17:10-11), finding out if what is being taught us is right. We should never take on face value any teaching that is given. We are to test the spirits to make sure everything is from God and not from the Devil. The only way to do that is to know what is contained in the Bible. Without scripture we will warp God’s word and come up with all sorts of error in our thinking about our Faith for ‘the Heart is Deceitful above all Things, and desperately sick;’ (Jeremiah 17:9-10). A Christian needs to live in the Spirit but from the Word of God. Without both we either end up as ‘Charismaniacs’ and falling into all sort of gross lunatic heresy or we become legalists bound by duty and adherence to the law.
Either being ignorant of scripture or choosing to put your own slant on something, influenced by culture for instance, leads to such errors that Steve Chalke is currently declaring. He has denied the ‘Substitutionary Atonement’ of Jesus calling it cosmic child abuse. The whole of Christian faith pretty much hangs on this doctrine and it is so clearly taught right from the beginning to the end of scripture. The current Emergent church seems to be falling in to this trap of discarding Biblical Doctrine for the sake or being culturally relevant. Taken to its ultimate end is how the Cults that are based on Christianity came about. Where a Man or Men decided to add to what the Bible says and distort what is clearly taught in the Bible alone. Revelation 22:18 clearly warns that God is really not impressed by anyone who adds to scripture along with Other OT passages that command us not to add to God’s Word.
So in conclusion and in answer to my Question that is the Title of this article. How do we get it so wrong in reference to doing things in the name of God that are so in contradiction with God and His commandments. If we do not understand what is in Gods word, about the human condition, our sinful nature, our ultimate destination if we do not accept Jesus Christ and his Substitutionary death on the Cross, ie: Hell. We will invent our own theories and doctrines and be deceived by the Devil who is the great deceiver and father of lies. His very goal is to get us to put ourselves in the place of God and walk in utter darkness while thinking we are in the light.
Hebrews 4:12 says: ‘For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.’
If you do not know what the Word says then you will be deceived and are in fact in Darkness and heading for a most horrendous place. This life on earth is the closest you will get to Heaven. Happy to live your own life, your way, for you alone. I plead with all my heart that you would come to know and understand that without surrender and submission to Christ there is no hope. But with Christ there is salvation, Hope, joy, life and unconditional Love for eternity. Living knowing this life is the nearest you will ever get to Hell.
So such atrocities that occurred in York and through the Centuries and up to today in the name of the God of the Bible absolutely inexcusable in the light of the Word of God. The conflicts in the world today are not because of ‘Religion’ even when they are in its name. They are caused by such things as greed, selfishness, pride, desire for power, covetousness, ignorance, false religion, hatred and idolatry. True Christianity speaks against such things because the Bible does and therefore God does. We are to stand up for truth and fight against evil and oppression but only out of a heart to see people brought to Christ and for God’s Kingdom to come on Earth for the Glory of God alone.
This is a talk I recently gave to our church Worship Team where we are working through the Book Facedown by Matt Redman.
Worship of God must come from a sense of wonder at His otherness or it is not worship. Words like Inexhaustible, immeasurable, unfathomable, eternal, immortal and invisible try to convey something of the otherness of God.
God is like no other but as Tozer remarked ‘Left to ourselves we tend immediately to reduce God to manageable terms’. The Bible reminds us repeatedly of God’s uniqueness.
Q: Are there any areas in your life you can identify where you box God into your view rather than that of scripture?
Isaiah:
I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. 42:8
I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god 44:6
To whom will you liken me and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike? 46:5
I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me 46:9
We must be wary of trying to be so culturally relevant that we fail to see the higher value in the Glory of God. He is in no way like us and we merely touch the shallowest depths of who God is.
It is too easy to present a tame, domesticated God in church and fail to explore the mighty depths of the Lord. We can package God as though he somehow needs us, our worship, our offerings and love. God does not need us at all, in any way. He is perfectly whole, complete in the relationship within the Trinity.
Q: Has it ever occurred to you that God in no way needs you?
If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are mine. Psalm 50:12
The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. Acts 17:24-25
Everything we have comes first from God, even the breath we use to praise Him came from Him.
“For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counsellor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” Romans 11:35
God owes us nothing and never fall into the lie that He somehow does. No matter what deep and painful struggle we may find ourselves in we must never think we can demand God help us and that he somehow owes us an answer. Or that we can demand He bless us, heal us, fix the circumstances we find ourselves in. He may do so in His sovereign will and loves to lavish good gifts upon us but never, ever think he somehow owes them to us.
Q: Can you think of times where you have demanded God come through for you and been disappointed that He didn’t?
When things go wrong, how we react is a good indicator of how much we understand about the otherness of God. It highlights where we are placing more trust in ourselves or something other than God. That we are more interested in our own comfort than His Glory. This is idolatry! Worship of something other than God.
However this picture of Gods otherness is only really complete when we add in His outrageous Grace. God does not need our worship but the wonderful thing is He loves our worship. God delights in honest, heartfelt worship. He is like a doting father over a cherished child. Just as His otherness is beyond our understanding so is His fatherly love and grace.
This Love and grace is summed up in the sacrifice of Jesus that provides the access to God in the first place. Without which we could never approach the throne room of God. We come through Jesus, in Jesus and with Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Our existence, from creation to salvation to sanctification is quite simply all about Him and for His Glory.
Isaiah:
everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made. 43:7
the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise. 43:21
I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins. 43:25
Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another. 48:10-11
We are created and he is creator. Every page of the story is one of Grace, Love and mercy towards us. God lavishly gives us good gifts but we must never think for a second any of it is about us. God is passionate and jealous for His own Glory.
It seems hard to accept that God must care about his own Glory. When man glorifies himself it is pure arrogance and pride. When God glorifies himself it is from a place of pure holiness. God must prize Himself above all others since there is no one else above Him, He is God.
Passionate and intimate worship of God is not so uncommon in today's church. However we need to find ways of helping the church respond to the otherness of God which is equally as important. This surely has to start in our own lives and become part of who we are. A people who reserve something for God alone. Words, thoughts or actions.
Q: Is there anything you do or could do that is reserved for God alone?
Q: How in leading worship can we get across something of the Otherness we have been discussing?
The Jews revered the name of God so highly they would not even write or say his name. We need to recapture this sense of otherness but we need glimpses of this otherness before we can sing wholeheartedly about it.
Tozer writes: ‘What the Church needs today is a restoration of the vision of the Most High God’. This is a relevant today as it was 50 years ago when it was written.
First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, raw egg products, loads of bacon and processed meat, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.
Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright coloured lead-based paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.
As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.
We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
Take away food was limited to fish and chips, no pizza shops, McDonalds , KFC, Subway or Nandos.
Even though all the shops closed at 6.00pm and didn't open on the weekends, somehow we didn't starve to death!
We shared one so ft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We could collect old drink bottles and cash them in at the corner store and buy Toffees, Gobstoppers, Bubble Gum and some bangers to blow up frogs with. We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......
WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of old prams and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and dens and played in river beds with matchbox cars.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo Wii , X-boxes, no video games at all, no 999 channels on SKY , no video/dvd films, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no Lawsuits from these accidents.
Only girls had pierced ears!
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross Buns at Easter time...
We were given air guns and catapults for our 10th birthdays,
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house ! and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!
Mum didn't have to go to work to help dad make ends meet!
RUGBY and CRICKET had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!! Getting into the team was based on MERIT
Our teachers used to hit us with canes and gym shoes and bully's always ruled the playground at school.
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
Our parents didn't invent stupid names for their kids like 'Kiora' and 'Blade' and 'Ridge' and 'Vanilla'
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL !
And YOU are one of them! CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.
And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.
Here is another title in the series that we are studying in my home group going through Wayne Grudems Book. This is from Chapter 15 of:
Christian Beliefs 'twenty basics every Christian should know':
All scripture quoted is ESV.
Also please take a look at an earlier post I made on Sanctification here. (NB: This is a paraphrase of the chapter therefore all credit goes to Wayne Grudem and not me.)
Repentance and faith result in Justification but they also play a part in what is sometimes called Sanctification. It ‘is a progressive work of both God and man that makes Christians more and more free from sin and more and more like Christ in their actual lives’. This is co-operation between God and his children where each has distinct roles. This is a life long process where we will make progress but we will never achieve perfection until the return of Christ.
Sanctification starts at the point we become Christians, or are Regenerated and increases through life. At regeneration Paul says we are ‘set free from sin’ (Romans 6:18) and should consider ourselves:
‘So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.’ (Romans 6:11-14)
This means at rebirth the power of sin is broken and we are no longer ruled and dominated by sin and no longer love to sin. However since Sanctification is a process we will never be completely free from sin in this life. As 1 John 1:8 says, ‘If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.’ And Ecclesiastes 7:20 ‘Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.’ This is the reason Jesus says pray “Forgive us our sins” (Luke 11:4)
When we die and go to be with God our sanctification is made complete because our souls are set free from indwelling sin and made perfect. Hebrews 12:23 says that when we come into the presence of God to worship we come to ‘... the spirits of the righteous made perfect’, because ‘…nothing unclean will ever enter it’ (Revelation 21:27). In another sense, sanctification will not be complete until the Lord returns and he transforms ‘…our lowly body to be like his glorious body’ (Philippians 3:21). Then our bodies too will be made perfect and free from all the influences of sin.
Though we can never be completely free from sin in this life we should still expect to see a regular increase in our sanctification. In 2 Corinthians 3:18, Paul says, we ‘…are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another’. He also says, ‘…forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus’. The picture here is a lifelong and continuous process. There is no indication from scripture as to how much sanctification we can expect and what specifically it will look like. We may defeat one sin only to struggle deeply with another.
However in all this we should never give up our struggle. We should never say any one sin has defeated us and that we cannot change. In the midst of struggle we cling on to the promises of God. For instance Romans 6:14: ‘For sin will have no dominion over you’.
The Role of God in Sanctification
Sanctification is primarily the work of God. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 Paul prays, ‘Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely’. And the writer of Hebrews in 13:20-21 writes ‘Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen’.
God equips us through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that works within us to change and sanctify us towards greater holiness. Peter and Paul in 1 Peter 1:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 respectively refer to the Spirit doing the Sanctification. Galatians 5:22-23 refers to the fruit of the spirit that increase as we are sanctified. As we ‘walk by the spirit’ and are ‘led by the spirit’ (Galatians 5:16-18) we become more and more responsive to the desires and prompting of the Holy Spirit and since the Spirit is a spirit of Holiness then he produces holiness in us.
Our Role in Sanctification
Our role is both Passive and active. Through repentance and faith we are told to present ourselves ‘to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness’ (Romans 6:13). This is our passive involvement. But in Romans 8:13 we are told ‘if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body’. This implies an active role on our part. But Paul is clear that it is also by the spirit.
This same active and passive role is found in Philippians 2:12-13: ‘work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.’ This encouragement to do our part is based on the promise that God will empower our work.
So just as becoming a Christian is a gift from God that requires our involvement; we find the same to be true for sanctification. Progress is a gift of grace and is a gift we can expect to receive. God honours our continual acts of faith and obedience seen through:
· Bible Reading and meditation (Psalm 1:2, Matthew 4:4, John 17:17)
· Prayer (Ephesians 6:18, Philippians 4:6)
· Worship (Ephesians 5:18-20)
· Witnessing (Matthew 28:19-20)
· Acts of mercy and justice (Mathew 23:23, James 1:27)
· Christian fellowship (Hebrews 10:24-25)
· Self-discipline and self-control (Galatians 5:23, Titus 1:8)
Q: Any questions on the meaning or process of sanctification?
What if the Sanctification Process Ends?
All true Christians should expect growth in sanctification during their lives. What if the process seems to end? If it ends what does that mean? Does it mean that we are no longer Christians? The root of these questions lies in the final question: can we really lose the blessing of our salvation?
The answer to that question is no. All who are truly Christians will be kept by God’s power and will persevere to the end of their lives as Christians. But how do we know if we are truly Christians? What if some fall away from any profession of faith and live a life of active rebellion against God? With respect to such cases we have to say that only those who persevere to the end are truly Christians. This two part teaching that all true Christians will persevere and only those who persevere are true Christians is sometimes referred to as the perseverance of the saints.
The Promise of Jesus
There is scriptural evidence that all true Christians will persevere. In John 6:38-40, Jesus says, ‘For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.’
Here Jesus is saying that everyone who believe in him will have eternal life and that it is God’s will that he ‘lose nothing’ of all God has given him. A similar promise is made in John 10:27-29. In John 10:28 Jesus specifically says two things about his followers. First, “no one will snatch them out of my hand” and second “they will never perish”. All this together shows the promise that those whom Jesus gives eternal life will never lose it.
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
Another piece of evidence that God keeps Christians safe for eternity is in the seal that is placed upon us. This is the seal of the Holy Spirit within us. In Ephesians 1:13-14, Paul writes, ‘In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.’
The seal, or guarantee is God’s very presence, the Holy Spirit, present in every Christian.
The Promise in Perseverance
While those who are truly Christians will persevere to the end, only those who persevere to the end are truly Christians. Jesus, in John 8:31 says, ‘If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples’. So, one evidence of genuine faith is continuing to believe and obey what Jesus said.
Paul, in Colossians 1:22-23, writes ‘in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard’. The condition Paul puts on perseverance indicates that those who don’t truly believe will eventually fall away from the faith they claim to have.
Though the promise in perseverance is that those who continue in the faith are true Christians it does not mean they will live perfect lives. We may have deep struggle with sin at different points in our lives. If we are truly Christians we will fight against sin in repentance and faith. So the promise regarding perseverance gives a warning that those who fall away were never truly believers.
Assurance of Perseverance
Hebrews tells us in Hebrews 3:14, ‘if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end’. However if the only confidence we have of genuine faith is when we have persevered to the end that is little hope for today.
We can have real assurance of salvation from other factors. Eg: A present trust in Christ and his ongoing work in our lives as in John 3:16. If you have confidence in Christ’s work on you behalf, in his ability to take the penalty of your sin and that you will enter heaven based solely on his work and not your own then this is indicative of true faith.
Another evidence of assurance is the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit on your life. 1 John 4:13, Romans 8:14 and Galatians 5:22-23. There should be some evidence of growth in these areas.
Additionally there should be evidence of continuing, present relationship with Jesus Christ.’ ‘Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked’, 1 John 2:4-6. A perfect life is not necessary but a general pattern of obedience to Christ’s commands will be evident in the true Christian.
So this ongoing work of Sanctification will be seen over a long period of time. ‘Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall’, 2 Peter 1:10. If there is a lack of these qualities, do not simply try to put more effort in, instead repent of their lack and ask God to give growth in these areas.
Persevering through the Process
So sanctification is a life long process. At times is will seem to be going very fast and at other times it can seem like there is no life in you at all. In the good times guard against pride and self righteousness. In the slow times you may doubt if you are even truly saved. Take confidence in Jesus’ words in John 6:40, ‘For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.’
I listened to this sermon during the week on my way to work and thought it brilliant teaching on what worship is! Listen and learn with an open heart. You can skip the first 8 Minutes as it relates to Mars Hill church information only. It is long, at about an hour, so take the time to hear some great teaching.
Just read this article on Christian Today. This is my view is one of the single biggest mistakes that the Christian Church is making today. I am in now way denying the huge impact and importance of what Darwin wrote. Just not in the way that the secular scientists and humanists would describe it.
I am not going to detail why this is such a tragedy as there are plenty of websites that do that significantly better than I can, eg: Click Here. However I will say that I believe this is one of the reasons why the Church of England and other denominations are in decline. They compromise and undermine the truth and authority of scripture interpreting it in the light of humanistic beliefs. Once you start doing that then no passage of scripture can be taken as an absolute truth. You fall into the modern quagmire that is moral relativism. The compromises on Homosexuality, sex outside of marriage and dare I say it, women priests and Bishops are other examples.
I am sure not all Anglican or other Denomination members are in support of the Darwin Worship and I would not like to make such sweeping statements. However when the Top leadership of such organisations come out in support of placing Darwin on the pedestal he is being placed on then it is a sad indeed. Belief in Theistic Evolution is a compromise and weakens every biblical and moral argument you subsequently make. Darwin knew this and Dawkins knows this and almost has more contempt for those that compromise what scripture teaches, than the Creationists he so violently and unflinchingly opposes.
If you are blown by every change of what society accepts and absorb it into your own worldview then how do you stand out from the world. How are you salt and light to a dark world. If there was no fall as described in Genesis and we evolved from pondscum then there is no sin, there can be no explanation of suffering that doesn’t make God out to be at best uncaring and at worst hateful, mans glorious standing as being made in the image of God is reduced to our existence having no meaning or purpose, there is no need for Christ to have come to redeem and save the lost. There is no Gospel!
20 years ago today I gave my life to God and became a Christian. For how that happened Click Here. It has been a very up and down walk but I am where I am by the Grace of God. 20 years of Sanctification, being made more like Christ, yet I feel so far from that goal. Of course we will never get there until heaven. Could I be in a better place, of course. Could I know way more scripture than I know, most definitely. Could I have more of my rough edges knocked off by the Lord. Yes if I had walked closer to him.
However I thank God for where he has brought me. I accept who I am in the light of who He is. I pray that if God grants me another 20 years then I shall walk a better walk. I walk of greater service and humility. I desire to love and reach out to others in a much less self protective way with my security rooted in Christ. I want to know the unsurpassed joy of worshipping my Father in heaven that all other earthly desires pale by comparison and have their correct place as it should be. I also want to enjoy each day that God gives me, not by what happens so much but by how much I can surrender to God.
All high and mighty desires but I do genuinely desire those things even if the way I currently live my life they don’t show as much as they should. I praise and thank God for saving me all those years ago and hope I can honour him in some way for all my days to come.
This is possibly the most argued over doctrine in the Christian church. The point here is to present what the Bible says and how this can and has been interpreted. I am not about to tell you what you should or should not believe. Nor do I wish to place so much emphasis on this that it causes a stumbling block. Some issues of doctrine must be divisive some don’t need to be, this doesn’t. It is however important to grapple with difficult doctrines when they appear so obviously in scripture.
The debate has raged from the 4th Century to today. Most commonly focussed between French theologian John Calvin (1509 – 1664) and Jacob Arminius (1560 – 1609). The debate is over where you stand on the Doctrine of Divine Election and how a person comes to be saved.
‘No one who believes in the Bible disputes the fact that election is taught there. It isn’t the reality of election, or even its source, author, time, or goal that has elicited so much venom among professing Christians. It is rather the basis of divine election, that is to say, why and on what grounds some are elected to salvation and life and others are not.
Some contend that God elects some, who are bad who, notwithstanding their being bad, choose to exercise faith in Jesus Christ. It is on the basis of this foreseen faith that God elects them. This is the doctrine of Arminianism, named after the Dutch theologian Jacob Arminius (1560-1609). It has also been called Wesleyanism because of the influence of John Wesley.
There is another view that God elects some, who are bad who, because of their being bad, are not of themselves able to exercise faith in Christ. It is on the basis of his own sovereign good pleasure that God elects them. This is the doctrine of Calvinism, named after the French theologian John Calvin (1509-1564). ‘
However in looking at this we must recognise our limitations as finite fallen human beings. One web site says it very clearly ‘both systems fail to adequately explain the relationship between God’s sovereignty and mankind’s free will – due to the fact that it is impossible for a finite human mind to discern a concept only God can fully understand.’ (http://www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html)
So What denominations Subscribe to each?
Faiths leaning at least in part in the Arminian direction include Methodists, Free Will Baptists, General Baptists, Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ, Church of the Nazarene, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Pentecostals, and Charismatics. Denominations leaning in the Calvinist direction are grouped as the Reformed churches and include Particular Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians, and Congregationalists. The majority of Southern Baptists, including Billy Graham, accept Arminianism with an exception allowing for a doctrine of eternal security. Many see Calvinism as growing in acceptance, and some well-known Southern Baptists such as Albert Mohler and Mark Dever have been trying to lead the Southern Baptist Convention to a Reformed view of faith.
Before I go in to what an actual Definition of Election might be I want to first start with some common ground we should all agree on and then list the Bible references that talk about election.
Common Ground
The common ground I am referring to here is what I believe is taught in Kings Church and what I am certain that the Bible teaches. This does not specifically state which side we adhere to and those who specifically teach one or the other may disagree with what I call our Common Ground.
Adam’s sin not only affected him but is passed on to all of us from birth. ‘for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God’ (Romans 3:23) and ‘They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.’ (Psalm 14:3) – This is the Doctrine of ‘Total Depravity’
All are guilty before God and as such the right punishment is Death. ‘For the wages of sin is death...’ (Romans 6:23a)
God would still be perfectly just if he saved no one. No one is good enough to measure up to the standard of holiness God requires without intervention.
Bible Verses referring to Election
· Acts 13:48 - And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
· Romans 8:28-30 - And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified
· Romans 9:11-13 - though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
· Romans 11:7 - What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened
· Ephesians 1:4-6 - even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved
· 1 Thess 1:4-5 - For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.
· 2 Thess 2:13 - But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
· 2 Tim 1:9 - who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began
· 1 Peter 1:1 -Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia
· 1 Peter 2:9 - But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
· Rev 13:7-8 - Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain
· Rev 17:8 - The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
· John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day
Jesus’ Words on Predestination
“For many are called, but few are chosen” (Matthew 22:14).
“I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me’” (John 13:18).
“For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).
“And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” (Matthew 24:31).
“And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?” (Luke 18:7).
“For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will” (John 5:21).
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day” (John 6:37–39).
“I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen” (John 13:18).
“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you” (John 15:16).
“If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” (John 15:19).
Scriptures on Predestination
The primary texts on predestination are in Romans 9–11 and also Ephesians 1:3–11. The following are also helpful:
“. . . do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place” (Acts 4:28).
“The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with uplifted arm he led them out of it” (Acts 13:17).
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).
“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
“For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified” (Romans 8:29–30).
“Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies” (Romans 8:33).
“. . . though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ As it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’ What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’ So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, ‘For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.’ So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills” (Romans 9:11–18).
“So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace” (Romans 11:5).
“What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened” (Romans 11:7).
“God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are” (1 Corinthians 1:27–28).
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:3–11).
“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake” (Philippians 1:29).
“Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience” (Colossians 3:12).
“For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction” (1 Thessalonians 1:4–5).
“But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
“Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory” (2 Timothy 2:10).
“Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness” (Titus 1:1).
“As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious” (1 Peter 2:4).
“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:9).
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion” (1 Peter 1:1).
“Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall” (2 Peter 1:10).
It is quite clear that the bible talks frequently about God choosing/electing his people, us. But it is the basis of the Election that is really at the heart of the debate. So let’s define what we mean by Election.
Definition of Election
According to Wayne Grudem, a Calvinist, it is defined as: ‘an act of God before Creation in which he chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any foreseen merit in them, but only because of his sovereign good pleasure!’
Sam Storms, also a Calvinist, differentiates the two views thus: According to Arminianism, election is that act of God whereby he foreordains to eternal life those whom he foresees will respond in faith to the gospel. According to Calvinism, election is that act of God whereby he foreordains to eternal life those who, because of sin, cannot respond in faith to the gospel. (http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/what-is-election/)
Jack W. Cottrell argues from an Arminian point of view in his book ‘Grace Unlimited’ pp. 51-73. that ‘Through his foreknowledge God sees who will believe upon Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, and become united with him in Christian Baptism; then before the foundation of the world he predestines these believers to share the glory of the risen Christ’ (p. 62)
Hopefully you get the idea and where the differences lie.
Core Beliefs of Each side
I will attempt to define the most common core beliefs of both sides. Note there are also differing views among each camp as well but this is what I understand to be each other’s viewpoint.
According to this doctrine, man in his present condition since the fall is so polluted with a principle of evil that every aspect of his being and personality is affected by it. The term depravity refers to the moral disposition or inclination of fallen man’s nature toward evil and against good. This principle of sin and moral pollution is such that man is by nature opposed to what is true and righteous. The inclination of his heart, the delight of his soul, the orientation of his will is toward wickedness. Nothing compels him to sin. He sins because he loves it. He revels in it. He has no taste for God, but relishes evil and pursues it with voluntary zeal. This may sound grim, but I believe that Scripture affirms it. In a moment we will have occasion to examine the relevant texts.
But man is not only depraved in his nature and will, he is totally depraved. Some have preferred the term pervasive depravity or extensive depravity inasmuch as the term total depravity can be misleading and perhaps say more about man’s sinful condition than Scripture permits. The point of each of these terms, whichever one you prefer, is that man’s depravity is not restricted to just one or several parts of his personality and being. It is not that man’s mind is depraved but not his will. It is not that man’s emotions are touched by sin but his heart is somehow insulated. The moral pollution that sin brings has touched and affected the whole of the person, the totality of his being.
Common Grace – But the doctrine of total depravity is not meant to deny that there are people who can be called ‘good’ in the world. The Calvinist, who affirms total depravity, also affirms common grace, according to which God not only restrains the full manifestation of the evil tendencies of the human heart but also, on a more positive note, enables the non-Christian to perform deeds of relative “good”.
John Murray, on Common grace writes, "is every favour of whatever kind or degree, falling short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God”
God Restrains: Gen. 4:15; 20:6; 2 Kings 19:27-28; 2 Thess. 2:6-12 God Blesses: Psalm 104:10-30; 145:1-16; and 136:25
Consequently, when I speak of total depravity I do not mean that all men are as depraved as they possibly can be, nor that the depravity of their heart will always manifest itself equally in all respects at all times. Total depravity simply means that the whole of the individual, his heart, soul, spirit, and will, is affected by and enslaved to sin, thereby rendering him odious in the sight of God.
The doctrine of unconditional election asserts that God's choice from eternity of those whom he will bring to himself is not based on foreseen virtue, merit, or faith in those people. Rather, it is unconditionally grounded in God's mercy alone.
(Ephesians 1:4-6 - even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved)
Faith comes from God, as a gift, it does not originate in the unbeliever.
Conditional Election
Arminius defined election as "the decree of God by which, of Himself, from eternity, He decreed to justify in Christ, believers, and to accept them unto eternal life." God alone determines who will be saved and his determination is that all who believe Jesus through faith will be justified. According to Arminius, "God regards no one in Christ unless they are engrafted in him by faith."
Put another way, God's decree to save some and reprobate others is His predetermination to save those who believe (1 Cor. 1.21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe) and His predetermination to reprobate unbelievers (John 3:36 - Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.).
Election is based on the condition of a person Believing the gospel message.
Limited Atonement (5 Point) Atonement Sufficient for All (4 Point)
5 point Calvinist would limit the Atonement to the elect only arguing it would be unjust for God to pay the penalty for some people's sins and then still condemn them for those sins, all those whose sins were atoned for must necessarily be saved.
4 Point Calvinists agree with Arminians that the Atonement is Universal, sufficient for all, but is only effective to the Elect.
Unlimited Atonement
Jesus' death was for all people, Jesus draws all people to himself, and all people have opportunity for salvation through faith.
The Atonement is only effective upon a persons Faith.
Irresistible Grace
When the Gospel call is made man on his own, is not able to respond. For the Elect the Holy Spirit effectively Regenerates a soul so that they can respond to the Gospel call internally and thus respond externally in faith and repentance.
What this means is that whereas everyone is called by God externally in that the gospel is preached to all, only the elect are called by God internally in that they alone are enabled to respond in saving faith.
We see much the same thing in 1 Thessalonians 1:5, in which Paul declares that his gospel did not come to the Thessalonians "in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction." Conceivably then, the gospel may indeed come to many in word only, that is to say, externally. They hear it with the ear but there is no response of faith in the heart. To others, the elect, the gospel comes not only in word but also in such a way that the Holy Spirit powerfully and efficaciously effects a saving response.
Resistible Grace (Prevenient Grace)
God takes initiative in the salvation process and His grace comes to all people. This grace (often called prevenient or pre-regenerating grace) acts on all people to convict them of the Gospel, draw them strongly towards salvation, and enable the possibility of sincere faith.
The offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.
Thus when a person responds in faith then the Holy Spirit regenerates the soul as a consequence.
Perseverance of the Saints
Traditional Calvinists believe in the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, which says that because God chose some unto salvation and actually paid for their particular sins, he keeps them from apostasy and that those who do apostasize were never truly regenerated (that is, born again). Non-traditional Calvinists and other evangelicals advocate the similar but different doctrine of eternal security that teaches if a person was once saved, his or her salvation can never be in jeopardy, even if the person completely apostasizes.
Eternal Security is Conditional
Arminians believe that future salvation and eternal life is secured in Christ and protected from all external forces but is conditional on remaining in Christ and can be lost through apostasy.
All believers have full assurance of salvation with the condition that they remain in Christ. Salvation is conditioned on faith, therefore perseverance is also conditioned. Apostasy (turning from Christ) is only committed through a deliberate, wilful rejection of Jesus and renouncement of belief.
We will now look very, very briefly at some of the questions this raises and some of the defences of both sides.
Objections to the Doctrine of Election
Are we Really Free? – If Unconditional election is really true then we are not really free. We are just puppets, robots, not able to make real choices.
· We must define what we mean by freedom. Total Depravity means we are not free. What is Freedom of the Will? Or are we in Bondage to the will? Only God truly has free will. We do have choices but our will is not free, our choices are limited. The choices we make come from our nature and heart. A fig tree does not bear apples. Proverbs sais Out of the heart, the wellspring of life the decision are made. Romans 5:10. We would only ever choose Sin, death and Satan, we are spiritually dead! God causes us to choose Christ voluntarily!!!
We make real choices every day and God holds us accountable for them. From a human perspective all choices we make are real and felt choices even if in some divine way God has intervened and his will is that we make that choice. I do not pretend to understand it except that I believe God is sovereign over all creation and also that I have a real choice to type this.
Is God really Fair or Just? – If he elects some and passes over others is God’s grace awarded rather unfairly? It means some never had the chance to believe. Calvin used the term “but gives to some what he denies to others” in talking about Election and God (Romans 9:14-29)
It is understandable that people react in horror at this. It’s largely due to the word “denies” – God “gives to some what he denies to others.” For many, the word “denies” says two things, neither of which Calvin intended.
(1) To say God “denies” something to one that he “gives” to another implies that God is withholding what he “owes”. Thus for God to “deny” eternal salvation to some folk suggests he is refusing to give them what they deserve, or what he owes them, or what he as God is obligated to give them. Clearly, for some, this language portrays God as unjust.
(2) Secondly, the word “denies” suggests that people have asked God, pleaded with him, for eternal life and he “denies” it to them or refuses to grant it to them. They envision the scenario as follows: “Oh, God, please save me. I want to believe in Jesus and experience eternal life.” To which God responds: “Sorry. I didn’t elect you. My hands are tied.” In this case God appears mean and unloving.
In other words, unconditional divine election strikes many as portraying God as either unjust or unloving, or both. Clearly, Calvin intended neither of these ideas. His point is that none deserve or are owed anything by God except eternal death. No one can claim God as his or her debtor. Therefore, when God “gives to one what he denies” to another, we are to understand that neither deserves eternal life, but in sovereign mercy God grants eternal life to some but not all. Some receive mercy, the others receive justice, but no one is treated unfairly.
How can anyone object to the reason God elected one instead of another when no one knows what it is? I can tell you what that reason is not. It is not anything having to do with either the elect or non-elect, either foreseen or actual. God chose one instead of another because it was pleasing to God, and that is all the reason he needs. This is the heart and soul of the doctrine of unconditional election, that God sovereignly decided to show love and favour toward some who did not deserve it, but not all, without regard to anything in either. And the bottom line is: we don’t like that! (Sam Storms: http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/divine-election-how-and-why-does-god-choose-part-ii/)
Doesn’t the Bible say God wills everyone to be Saved? Both sides agree that not everyone will be saved!
· 1 Timothy 2:3-4, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16-17, Matthew 11:28, Acts 17:30. Yes God does want everyone to be saved as God loves everyone and God invites everyone, all people to salvation and turn from sin trusting in Jesus. However many do not love or desire Jesus! Why? John 5:40, John 12:46-48, Acts 7:51, Romans 3:10-18, Ephesians 2:1-3 God’s desire, heart and invitation is for people to come to Jesus. People chose to reject Jesus and have no one to blame except themselves! (Total Depravity)
· Calvinist would say that God deems his own glory more important than saving everyone and that God’s own glory is also furthered by the fact that some are not saved.
· Arminians would say that the preservation of Man’s Free will is more important to God than salvation.
· So they are different on the nature of God. Reformed is that God’s highest value is his own glory and the Arminian system is that God’s highest value is the free will of man.
How does God’s sovereignty and providence balance against our understanding of Free Will? Does God’s sovereignty mean He is in total control of everything or does His desire to maintain our Absolute Free Will mean He has given up absolute control? (I am not about to answer that here and the references below give detailed responses to this)
Calvinistic View of Election
Calvinists believe that Election in the New Testament is seen as:
1. A comfort to believers that God will act for our good in all circumstances as he has done from eternity to eternity out of Love.
2. A reason to Praise God. Eph 1:5-6 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Since our salvation has nothing at all to do with anything in us.
3. An encouragement to Evangelism. 2 Timothy 2:10. Paul knows that God has chosen some to be saved and sees this as an encouragement to preach the Gospel. It is a guarantee of success in preaching.
Defence of the Calvinistic Viewpoint
1) Election is not a fatalistic way to view the world. A Nothing that we do matters view. The New Testament present salvation as something brought about by a personal God in relation to personal creatures. Ephesians 1:5. We make willing choices as real persons and that these choices are real choices because they do affect the course of events in the world.
2) Election is not based on God’s foreknowledge of Our Faith. Looking at Romans 8:29. Firstly because this is a foreknowledge of a person not of a fact about something they would do. Secondly because scripture never speaks about Our faith as the reason God chose us. 2 Timothy 1:9. Thirdly Election based on something good in us (our faith) would be the beginning of salvation by merit. If the ultimate determining factor in whether or not we are saved is our own decision to accept Christ then we may come to think we deserve some credit for doing so. Or that we are somehow more wise than those who chose to reject Christ. Ultimately what makes the difference between someone who does accept Christ and someone who rejects Christ? If you answer that it is based on something God does then at its core it is based on Grace alone. If you answer that the difference is something in man, ie: Faith, then salvation depends on a combination of grace plus human ability. Fourthly Predestination based on Foreknowledge still does not grant absolute freewill. If God looks into the future and sees person A will believe and person B will not then their destinies are still determined and cannot be otherwise. But determined by what? If not God then who or what? Conclusion then that Election is Unconditional!
Defence of an Arminian Perspective
A. Human Free Will (libertarian freedom) is assumed everywhere in the Bible
Definition of Libertarian Freedom: We are free in choosing one thing if, all things being just what they are when we make our choice, we could have chosen differently. That is, libertarian freedom requires the so-called “power of contrary choice” or the “ability to choose otherwise.”
B. The Universal Love of God (e.g., John 3:16) rules out God selecting some and not others
C. The Absolute Justice of God (e.g., Psalm 119:137; Hosea 14:9) means God can have nothing to do with evil
From Me!
This is a very difficult topic to understand let alone come to any conclusion about. Both sides have good arguments for their position and against the other. Certainly historically Calvinist have been less that gracious to the other side of the fence. What is most important is what the Bible actually says and not on what a particular person thinks it says. For this we must approach scripture as open to the Holy Spirit as possible. We must wrestle with difficult passages from the Bible. Ultimately we must trust in Gods Goodness, Love, Grace, Mercy, Justice and that He is Sovereign. Whichever side you eventually come down on it does not mean you are right! Whatever the actual process involved in a person becoming a Christian surely the most important point is that they do respond to the Gospel and give their lives to Christ.
I just read this article on the BBC web site. I find this absolutely horrendous and totally unacceptable. I am a creationist and disagree with just about everything that DA says in his TV shows when it comes to origins. However I would never wish harm upon the man or even think of sending such a message.
I true Christian should never do such a thing and they really need to examine their hearts before the Lord and send an apology if they are truly Christian. The other thought of course that occurred to me was this ‘could’ and the emphasis is on ‘could’ have come from a non Christian and non creationist just trying to stir up trouble and controversy and further smear the name of Christianity and Creationists. Of course i have no proof it is just something that crossed my mind as it would not be the first time such has happened.
I know I cannot speak for all Christians and all creationists but I would nevertheless like to apologise to you Sir David if one of my brothers/sisters in Christ has sent this. There is no excuse!
If on the other hand it came from someone trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it or for some vendetta then grow up and repent or reap the message that you sent!
